On August 11, Ambassador Lu Kang received an exclusive interview from Kumparan on the Taiwan question. The transcript of this interview is as follows:
Host: Mr. Ambassador Lu Kang, thank you so much for having us. Thank you for your time.
Ambassador Lu Kang: My pleasure to be with you here.
Host: Let’s get to the point, please. For the past week, the world’s eyes have been on what’s happening in Taiwan, right? So this is related to the visit of the U.S House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to Taipei last week. So could you please tell me how does China view the U.S. action about this?
Ambassador Lu Kang: Now, everybody sees that actually Speaker Pelosi’s visit to China’s Taiwan island has already caused great tension not only in this region, but also worldwide. If you ask me how I should look at that, I think her trip to China’s Taiwan island is by nature a very irresponsible move by the U.S. Government to instigate separatist activities on the sovereign state of China. This is a blunt violation and a breach of basic norms governing international relations. Definitely that infringes upon China’s sovereignty and integrity. So then you can see why China is strongly against the move.
Host: So. to sum it up, you are saying that China thinks Nancy Pelosi’s visit is a violation to One China policy. Do you mean that?
Ambassador Lu Kang: Yeah, definitely. That’s an apparent violation of what they claim—the U.S. commitment to the One China policy. But something beyond that is, it’s also a violation of the basic norms governing international relations and sets a very bad precedent.
Host: I see. But on the other side, the U.S. thinks China violates the international laws. For example, what’s happening in Xinjiang, for example, what’s happening in Hong Kong. So what do you think about that?
Ambassador Lu Kang: So you can ask those Americans who told you China violated, in their view, the international laws in Xinjiang and in Hong Kong whether they agree that both Xinjiang and Hong Kong are just part of China. What happened both in Xinjiang and in Hong Kong are internal affairs of China. That said, what happened in Xinjiang is the joint efforts by all ethnic groups there to develop and to enjoy a better life, and especially to stop those secessionist, separatist and terrorist activities. So maybe some Americans in the U.S. don’t want to see that. What happened in Hong Kong Special Administrative Region is also another thing we have to look at the truth. What happened in the year 2019? Actually, you saw riots and mobs But then the American politician described that as a “beautiful scenery”. Now, the order is already restored, people enjoy their life, investors enjoy their business. But some Americans, especially some on the Capitol Hill don’t want to see that.
Host: So that’s why they assume that China is the one that violates the international law.
Ambassador Lu Kang: When we say that the U.S. violated international law, actually, it’s not only what’s enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, which basically says in a very explicit way that non-interference in internal affairs of other countries, and respect sovereignty and territorial integrity, that’s international law, but also the commitment made by the U.S. Government in their international instruments bilaterally agreed upon with the Chinese Government. That’s the One China policy. And what they commit to is that they only maintain unofficial interaction with people on the Taiwan island within the framework of One China policy. That’s international law.
Host: I want to know, so Nancy Pelosi is the highest ranking official from the U.S. to come to Taipei. But before that, in 1997, former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich also visited Taiwan, but as Nancy Pelosi said, I will quote her saying. She said “ China didn’t make much of a fuss about that” when five U.S. senators, including the Chair of the Foreign Relations Committee, visited Taiwan. Do you think why does China reacts aggressively?
Ambassador Lu Kang: Two points. First, I can assure you, whenever the American side takes any move violating China’s sovereign and territorial integrity, especially in the context on the Taiwan question, China HAS taken and WILL always take necessary measures accordingly. That’s our principled position. Second, you could see the argument from the U.S. side that it was not the first time, you had seen some other precedents. I don’t know whether you agree with them, when their misbehavior in the past could justify the repetition of their wrongdoings today. I don’t know whether you recall that also in the early years in this century, when the American politician produced a small bag of laundry powder in the Security Council of the United Nations to justify their war against Iraq. That already became a joke, a joke but very unfortunate on Iraq people, on the innocent civilians there. So then are they entitled to repeating this kind of behavior again just because that happened in the past? I don’t think any people will agree, except some American politicians.
Host: I understand. So we are going to the drills that’s happening around Taiwan. We have heard from plenty of China’s response to the visit by then. We have heard from how the exercises are meant to test out the PLA’s joint combat capability and its weaponry to how it is a step towards changing the status quo in the Taiwan Strait. In truth, what does China aim to accomplish from these drills that just finished yesterday?
Ambassador Lu Kang: Actually, the the PLA has already made an announcement. For this period, it might come to a suspension for this part of the exercise. But come back to your question, first of all, we have to make clean who changed the status quo? What is the status quo across the Strait? From the very beginning, the status quo is that both mainland and Taiwan are part of China, There is but one China. That’s also the commitment, as I just told you, made by the U.S. Government in the three joint communiques governing the China-U.S. relationship. But then, in the recent past years, what we have seen? We have seen the separatist forces and the authorities on the Taiwan island are trying to push the separatist activities in a gradual way. They try to advocate the desinicization move on the Taiwan island. What we have seen is the American move and attempt to incite those kind of separatist activities. It’s those American politicians that support that and it’s the Taiwan authority who try to change the status quo. If that happens, that will change the basic framework governing the mainland’s policies towards Taiwan island, governing China’s policies towards the U.S. because we are obliged to respond. And when we respond, definitely, we will respond not in a way and pace as those separatists might envisage.
Host: Since you mentioned about that, I would like to underline Nancy Pelosi said that she just wants to bring peace and promote democracy in Taiwan. So do you think by promoting democracy in Taiwan is the same as promoting separatism?
Ambassador Lu Kang: When she said that she is coming to bring peace, what’s the result now? And I can tell you, even before she paid her visit in this region, we have already issued our warnings repeatedly to the American side what kind of consequences it might be. Not only us, and not only people in this region but in the U.S. have already warned her that this might cause tension, not peace. She knew that before she came. She is doing that intentionally.
Host: To create chaos?
Ambassador Lu Kang: Yes.
Host: Okay. And also we noted that the Chinese Government sanctioned Nancy Pelosi and her family as the consequences of her visit. Is that true?
Ambassador Lu Kang: We have already announced that.
Host: So the relations between China and U.S. right now are kind of bumpy.
Ambassador Lu Kang: It’s not our fault.
Host: Okay.Thank you. So Taiwan’s Defense Ministry believes that China is assessing operational plans by stimulating attacks on the island through these drills, which to say that China is rehearsing like a full-fledged blockade and ultimately invasion. Would you like to remark on that?
Ambassador Lu Kang: Taiwan is just part of China. Taiwan island is the territory of China. So within the framework of the territory of the sovereign state, it’s the discretion of the Central Government to carry out exercises or any moves on its own territory and nearby waters. Concerning whether the authorities on the Taiwan island or some politicians on the Taiwan island might have this or that kind of concern, there’s one easy way out. Just come back to the One China principle and framework that have already been agreed upon by the two sides in the year 1992, the common understanding which shrines the One China principle. But if any separatists and forces try to break away from that, the Central Government, the mainland is definitely entitled to taking any necessary measures. That’s already stipulated in our Anti-Secession Law, which was adopted in the year 2005. It was adopted publicly.
Host: If that happens, as the Chinese Ambassador to Indonesia, what do you think and how does it impact Indonesia as part of the region?
Ambassador Lu Kang: I don’t think many people would like to see that. What’s the most imperative is that people who really care about the peace, stability, prosperity in this region, people who really care about the basic principles enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, which, in my view and according to my experience in the past 5 months, those kinds of principles are also very prevailing here in Indonesia and in Indonesia’s foreign policy. I think what’s most imperative for all those countries, governments and people is to unite together and speak out louder against any move or attempt to stir up issues and chaos in this region, and to preserve the principles in the Charter of the United Nations, to object any attempt to stir up separatists moves on other sovereign countries.
Host: And in Indonesia’s part, and also our Foreign Ministry had also announced that we support fully of One China policy.
Ambassador Lu Kang: We appreciate that.
Host: Yeah. Do you wanna say anything else about that?
Ambassador Lu Kang: I noticed the statement by the spokesman Ambassador Teuku on this. I appreciate, first, as you just mentioned to, what he specifically mentioned that the Indonesian Government sticks to the one China policy. It’s very important. Second, in the very beginning of his statement, he specifically mentioned that the Foreign Ministry of Indonesia did foresee that the move by Nancy Pelosi might be a problem and might cause tension in this region. So from the very beginning, the Indonesian Government is quite aware of the sequence of what’s happening these days.
Host: Now, we’re moving to economic consequences. I would like to underline that China has halted some trade with Taiwan as retribution to the visit, the reasons pertaining to pests affecting several of the products. However, Taiwan insists that it is due to political reasons. What is then to become of these trade relations?
Ambassador Lu Kang: First of all, I think the customs authorities on the mainland have already made a public announcement. They’re supposed to be responsible for the interests of the customers. Secondly, what you quoted from the authorities on the Taiwan island, if they believe that this is a kind of politically motivated move, then they have to ask themselves why they are not faced with this kind of move several weeks ago, months ago and years ago, and why now? If they really care about the interests and the benefits of the people on the Taiwan island, it’s most important for them to correct mistakes and come back to the real status quo across the Strait.
Host: There are some Taiwanese analysts argue that China would bear the brunt in the scenario of an economic blockade to Taiwan. Taiwan has also claimed that China would pay a considerable price by launching a blockade. So what do you think about this? Does China already have a strategy for dealing with this situation?
Ambassador Lu Kang: I don’t know what’s the case with Indonesia and other countries. But for China, for the Chinese Government and Chinese people, when it comes to sovereignty and territorial integrity, that’s priceless.
Host: Yes.
Ambassador Lu Kang: So you don’t calculate that with price.
Host: Yeah. I already understand because I really appreciate and see how important Taiwan is for China’s sovereignty, because you mentioned that several times. And also, it brought me to question a statement from Joe Biden. He said that he would defend Taiwan at any cost, in case China for example, invades Taiwan any time with force in the event of an incursion. So how does China respond to that statement?
Ambassador Lu Kang: I already said that Taiwan is part of China. So even if in the last day, this kind of scenario might come into being, it’s not kind of “invasion”, it’s just China’s necessary measures to achieve the reunification goal of the whole Chinese people. And concerning what you just quoted as President Joe Biden said, you have already noticed that whenever he came out and said this kind of words, there would be following clarification from the U.S. Government. The Americans have already been told by the Chinese side repeatedly: don’t try to underestimate China’s will and ability to preserve China’s unity, sovereignty and territorial integrity. That has been proven by history. And that will be proven by history if somebody is still suspicious about that.
Host: But in Taiwan, they also have held some military drills in case China would invade them. So they think China will invade Taiwan. But for China, you say it’s keeping a sovereignty.
Ambassador Lu Kang: So that’s why I keep you alert. There are movements and forces on the Taiwan island that try to encourage and incite separatist activities. We have to be alert on that. That will have consequences, not only across the Strait.
Host: I would like to go back to the reunification later. But for now, I would like to ask you about the whole in microchip industry between China, U.S. and Taiwan. Nancy Pelosi’s visit to Taiwan might be like, for example, the beginning of corporation in the microchip industry as I’ve been told. It means that the intensifying rivalry between China and U.S. would be even more tense. So how will China respond to this?
Ambassador Lu Kang: It was yesterday or the day before yesterday, the Chinese Government has already made our comments on the Chip and Science Act adopted by the U.S. From the very beginning, we have made it very clear that any attempt to distort the market and to intervene in an improper way of the international market are not acceptable. You can see that while adopting this bill, the American Government said that actually this bill is aimed at improving the competitiveness of the American industry. But from the very beginning, people are quite suspicious about whether it’s in compliance with the American commitments in WTO. That’s the American industry policy, they try to give huge subsidy to their own industries, which is against their own advocation worldwide on free market.
Coming back to what kind of impact might have on China-U.S. relationship and China’s own development. First, we are against any attempt that tries to intervene in a very improper way in today’s general agreement on globalization, which definitely will have negative impact on not only China, but all those on board on globalization. Secondly, China has never tried to rely on anyone else to develop ourselves. Concerning all those industries, you can see that even in the very difficult period, when China tried to develop our own industry complex, that was in the 1960s and 1970s, we were faced with even more difficult outside situation. But China succeeded in moving ahead. Of course, we still would like to take an opening policy. We believe it serves the interests of all countries, peoples and economies. We still believe in the merits of a community for all humankind with shared future.
Host: Thank you. So moving on to the diplomatic relations, how would you see the tension happening with Taiwan would affect China’s relations with other countries, for example, in the foreign ministers meeting, with ASEAN foreign ministers with walkouts and calls for restraint. What’s your opinion on that?
Ambassador Lu Kang: According to what I understand, especially in our conversation with our Indonesian counterparts here, I think all ASEAN countries, including Indonesia, made it very clear in a very explicit way that they stick to the One China policy. So I don’t think there is any substantial differences between China and ASEAN countries. And when it comes to your question, I think I also made it very clear. ASEAN countries know the sequence of how things have evolved to the current situation.
Host: OK. This is our last question. I would like to ask about the reunification. Yesterday Beijing had just released a white paper, and it insists reunification peacefully with Taiwan. But you’re seeing the development in Taiwan right now. So what will China do to make that dream come true when Taiwan already has on their side and then China insists Taiwan be its part?
Ambassador Lu Kang: First of all, thank you very much for your notice of the white paper we just issued yesterday.
Host: I read that news. Thank you.
Ambassador Lu Kang: I’ve actually prepared the English text for you. That’s a very good paper summing up the evolution of the cross-Strait situation and mainland’s policies towards Taiwan, especially in the past 10 years. Hopefully, you could have some time to do some in-depth reading. Concerning Taiwan, some people have different ideas on the Taiwan island. Let’s just see what are the basic facts. In today’s world, among all the 193 members of the United Nations, 181 recognize there’s but one China and the Government of the People’s Republic of China represents the sole legitimate Government of China. That’s already the common sense, that’s not only what China insists on. Coming back to your question on what we should do for the reunification, I think basically there are two issues. First, we are always encouraging and committing ourselves to further interaction across the Strait, to enhance more mutual understanding and cooperation that could benefit peoples across the Strait and bring about common prosperity. Secondly, which is no less unimportant is that we should always keep alert on any attempt to separate Taiwan from China. We should always be alert against those forces outside this region that try to stir up issues, make chaos and take advantage of this kind of situation to serve their own geopolitical agenda. That’s immoral. That does not serve the interests of all the Chinese people, including people on Taiwan island. That does not serve the interests of all people in this region who aspire for peace, stability and prosperity.
Host: I want to know that if, for example, there is a separatism act inside Taiwan, and there were military drills around Taiwan, and Taiwan thinks China will invade Taiwan. But I want to underline that will China really attack Taiwan as part of its own? Or will China fight those external factors?
Ambassador Lu Kang: Actually, nobody would like to see this last scenario. But it’s already stipulated very clearly and publicly in China’s Anti-Secession Law which was adopted in the year 2005.
Host: Thank you. That would be all. Thank you so much, Mr. Ambassador. It’s very good to have this conversation. I learned a lot from you. I read some news about China and Taiwan, and I’m interested, because it’s also similar on what’s happening in Ukraine and Russia.
Ambassador Lu Kang: That’s quite different.
Host: No, no. I am not saying that, because Ukraine is a sovereign country. It’s different. But the U.S. interventions. That’s what I want to say.
Ambassador Lu Kang: To be honest, that’s another attempt by some politicians in the U.S. from the very beginning to try to confuse international community. They try to compare what’s happening across the Strait here with what’s happening in Europe between Russia and Ukraine. But that is not the same issue.
Host: I just learned a lot from from you. And you mentioned new knowledge and information. That makes sense.
Ambassador Lu Kang: When the U.S. tries to describe the situation here, they always use the word China and Taiwan. They intentionally do not use “mainland” and “Taiwan”. But if you look at the three joint communiques governing our bilateral relations, the U.S. Government commits themselves specifically to that they will not carry out the “One China, One Taiwan” policy and “Two Chinas” policy. So you know in which way they have already violated their own commitment.
Host: So they already think that Taiwan is a country or like a sovereign country.
Ambassador Lu Kang: That’s their problem, violating their own commitment in international relations.
Host: It was in 1979?
Ambassador Lu Kang: Three Communiques. The first one was adopted in 1972 when President Nixon visited China. The second one was the one that established our bilateral diplomatic relationship, and which came into force on January 1st, 1979, but it was publicly announced 15 days before that. And the third one was in 1982, exactly 40 years ago, actually one week away will mark the 40th anniversary, when the American side made their promise in that, first, they will carry out our bilateral relationship based on mutual respect, non intervention in internal affairs of other countries, respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity. And they agree that China-U.S. relations on all fronts will be based on that. Secondly, they promise that they will reduce both in quantity and quality of their arms sales to the Taiwan island. They also promised in this Communique that they will never carry out a policy to encourage “Two Chinas” or “One China, One Taiwan”. So you can see that for all those promises, what’s the reality today?
Host: So you’re saying that the U.S. is the one who signs the agreement, but they are the one who violates the agreement.
Ambassador Lu Kang: And they are the one who changes the status quo.
Host: I got it. Thank you so much for that again.
